Small, light, and more rugged than a lot plastic guns. and departments. Not concerned with concealed carry. JavaScript is disabled. Will that hollow point still have the same effect? If knock down power is desired forget the 45 and get a 44 mag or get a 375 they kill most anything one shot. This post has been updated to include information released by the FBI regarding the weapon used in the shooting. 45 ACP His career began as a special agent with NCIS. But whats the long term average? In those 53 years, weve built a reputation as one of Texass most trusted firearms dealers, and we did it in a state where sellers of used guns are almost as common as oil wells and prime rib. If you can fire without remorse. and manufacturers. Officer Needs Help!!! All animals died pretty much on location. A 1911 in 9MM? You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. If I think it can get that bad where Im going. PS: I forgot to mention that as a SAW gunner I was allowed to carry an old .45 (Springfield Armory). Projectiles do not accelerate once they leave the muzzle. But it is no longer valid against todays terrorists, and the mindset they fight with. All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45. Come On People!! The primary result of permanent cavity damage is profuse bleeding. But in summer I have just discovered the Sig Sauer P938, a 9mm 7+1 with extended magazine. Its why neck-down cartridges for .223 are even used. I seem to recall reading in Rangemaster newsletter a month or two ago an FBI paper making the FMJ case. I definitely know how to settle this little petty argument. So how can we expect people to take a human life so readily? Pistols are primarily used for close combat. Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. Since 1959 we have striven as a family-owned business to build a gun shop that is here to grow with your family. Enter https://www.police1.com/ and click OK. Then you missed. Im sure, given the choice, MARSOC troops would take a 15 round FNX45 over a Glock 15. Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies We enjoy our 2nd amendment and want it protected and were prepared to give our life to defend our country. Only high-velocity rounds (those with an impact velocity of 2,000 feet per second or more) with soft or hollow points reliably offer fragmentation. WebThe human body can survive relatively high blast overpressure without experiencing barotrauma. Anyone actually seen the effect of .45 jhp? | 1911Forum Ret. These features, along with superb marketing efforts, have made the 9mm the round of choice, not only for the armed forces, but also for most police departments in the U.S. Ill take an M4, even with the M855 green-tip ammo that everyone says sucks, over an MP40 or a Thompson or any handgun any day of the week. I can concealed carry and the weight of my Ruger compact 9mm is about as heavy as I want. One round goes off, and you get a failure to feed. What type of bullet is being fired? Hydrostatic shock The pool of cartridges in the study are grouped which makes the data integrity less reliable but each group of larger calibers exhibit significant percentage better lethality. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. While the tissue affected by the temporary cavity isnt completely destroyed like that in the direct path of the bullet, it does suffer trauma, especially if the bullet travels past less-flexible parts of the body, like bone or dense organs like the liver, which can shatter or rupture from the shockwave. WHICH HANDGUN ROUND HAS THE BEST STOPPING POWER? But the US never officially ratified these protocols, and is not officially bound by them. The projectile is losing velocity and arcing downward. Many do not discover the gun thats right for them as easily as you have (if they ever do)! AT 500 fps a 230 grains projectile would only have 127 foot pounds of energy leaving the muzzle. To everyone thats been in a shooting with a .45 Auto, and they say, Thank goodness it was a .45 because I only had to use one or two shots. Its just confirmation bias. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. The reason is recoil. WebAnswer (1 of 16): It does vary, but most of the time a 5.56mm rifle cartridge will have much more destructive potential than a .45 caliber pistol load does. What that means is that handgun bullets, as opposed to the devastating wound channels rifle projectiles can cause, are only just poking little holes in people. Nobody I know whos had to use issue 9mm M882 Ball is terribly impressed with it, either for the way it penetrated light cover like auto bodiesadmittedly, if you are shooting at someone protected by an automobile chassis, you should have brought a rifle, if not a grenade launcher with HEAT rounds or something belt-fed with the black-tip ammo that have the depleted uranium coresor for the way bad people reacted to being shot with it, which was usually not at all for quite some time barring a hit to the brain or spinal cord, or multiple hits, as in the whole magazine and maybe another. Please dont send me any hate mail. Anyway great comments to all. Garand Thumb 2.84M subscribers 4.2M views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, the age old debate and the one that 9mm Luger offers greater magazine capacity and less recoil/more weapon control at a lower cost. Thank you Rich if you need 15 rounds to put down the assailant youre in trouble already, I have not near the experience of some of the veterans in the service. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. When all else fails, when the rounds fail to stop the bad guy, then you need time on your side. It normally doesnt do that with hollowpoints, either. I use a 1911 as thats what I learned on, prefer the way it feels in my hand. I carry a s&w .357 airweight not fun to shoot due to recoil and sound. What I have seen over the years on this debate, is that the majority, not all, prefer the 9mm due to its minimal recoil, magazine capacity and concealability. Damage: 22. Missing it not an option. The wider bullet also creates a bigger cavity in whatever it passes through. In the end public opinion and perception has a great deal to do with defense decisions. Chiverss history of the assault rifle, The Gun: In the macabre world of terminal ballistics, the study of what happens when projectiles actually strike, much can be made of over-penetration: the phenomenon of bullets passing clean through their targets. for all the same reasons. Math is absolute and backs what Ive stated. Theres been many people shot and continue. According to mamas statement, Papa got crazy and chased her into the bath room. knows the sound of a 9m they may say o well Ill chance it but a 40 cal. She said she shot him. A lot. .4570, .454 Casull and .460 Super Mag are all tremendously powerful. Where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. And I am surprised that this was not mentioned. Now lets get back to today in time and we do have very good defense ammo so most of the time Id agree that the 9mm is equal to any other round out there today for human sized targets and smaller as well. If you notice in Police shootings, the gun is usually empty after the event is over. Before he did this there was almost as many different firearms within the department as deputies. Its too small. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. Psychological factors play a much greater role. If I wanted to hit a little harder, I would maybe look for a WC .45 mold in the 220 to The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. Their explanation (other than increasing ammo capacity): bullet technology has come a long way since 1986. .40 S&W I carry 180 grain HP. Dr. Leana Wen, a trauma surgeon and the health commissioner for Baltimore, about the especially devastating effects of expanding rounds: often. Whats more, a temporary cavity measures volume that has been stretched, not volume that has been destroyed. Media in category "Human body" The following 64 files are in this category, out of 64 total. Finally, someone mentions what type of ammo is being used. 9mm vs .45 ACP [Debate Finally Settled] - Pew Pew Tactical As long as YOU are comfortable with the choice, then Im happy for you! If you like and are comfortable with what you shot, then you will carry what you like. So dont ask. Previously, the classic .45-caliber Colt 1911 was one of three pistols that Raiders were allowed to carry, but now the 9mm Glock 19 is the only pistol that Marine special operators can take into battle, said Maj. Nick Mannweiler, a spokesman for Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command. A .223 is just 55 grains. That has been the best comment so far. For two decades, MARSOC operators have been allowed to carry custom-built Colt 1911s chambered in .45ACP. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. Not aim shoot. How about a discussion of American made vs foreign made weapons for our military? With the 45 2 at most. Give me a break!! 12 shots fired. Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. ;p, I think someone is living in Television land, get real you might have shot one or chased a couple but routinely is in make believe land, quit lying just to talk. Trauma surgeons, the guys actually opening up peoples chests and trying to put them back together, say otherwise. But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. If I put p++ in my 9 mm, its going to hurt like hell! I have got to wonder about this Neil Clapperton quoted above. I enjoyed reading all of this info but didnt once read the real reason the .45 was originally better at stopping than the .36 cal. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for I carry a Glock 19 with 15+1 and am quite crafty with it. So you can rely on us to provide quality pre-owned weapons backed by our famous guarantee. As to which will stop a human fasterhavent a darn clue. Using the right bullet is where it counts. So, yes, they are looking at it with the assumption that modern 9mm JHP bullets perform very similarly to .40s&w and .45acp, and thus will move toward 9mm loadings for sidearms. Be Safe Out There. I believe politics carries the most weight.The military sidearm is the least political concern as far as what other weapons are available for them.The beretta was a good example.Far from the best weapon compared to sig & glock,it got us a deal to put missles in Italy . No vest..and since it was my idea.I Shoot First! For a tommygun, I'd probably go with 1d8 base damage, +1 magical weapon bonus to represent penetration and damage, and the ability to make a cone area attack (save or take damage). Maybe .22 LR? But honestly, if you cannnot conceal a 1911 you cant conceal a G19.. Thats a bs statement, I know this because I carry concealed and my 1911 conceals just as well as a single stack 9mm compact. The human body experiences four main types of acid-based disorders: metabolic acidosis, metabolic alkalosis, respiratory acidosis, and respiratory alkalosis. How about a 147gr vs 155 gr comparison? The USMC changed to 9mm since female Marines had trouble with recoil and were not qualifying at same rate as males. Category:Human body Heres what they found it did to those enemies bodies, as republished in New York Times reporter C.J. It enters the human body at energies approaching the speed of light and Larry Muhr, A little anecdote. He is the current USPSA Carry Optics Colorado State Champion and most recently won 3rd place in Master Class at the 2022 USPSA Carry Optics National Championship. When I left LE I traided for a S&W 39-2 9mm. True, Or not? So if my pill hit my target in a less than optimal body section with ball ammo, Ill opt for the bigger ball every time. Request a quote for the most accurate & reliable non-lethal training, A shootout that killed multiple FBI agents underscores the need for cops to use bullets that will neutralize an adversary as quickly as possible. 45 acp damage human body I still did like the 39-2 for CC. Marine Force Recon Vietnam Vet. of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. If you wound one man, you take three men out of battle, one injured & two to care for him. This would give them an edge regarding tissue displacement/destruction during a shooting incident where any advantage, however slight, would be welcome. 9mm and 45 ACP are popular for all the reasons listed above. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. You shoot when you can, at the place you most want. A. H. Hassall, The microscopic anatomy Wellcome L0024127.jpg 1,080 1,787; 799 KB. In combat the one thing that does count is having more capacity, whether you miss or have more threats to neutralize, more capacity is a good thing no matter how you look at it. Ive carried about every size round in my 71+ years of which 36 was an LEO. Factors like these led to the military adopting the Colt .45 ACP pistol as its standard sidearm in 1911. to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. My bottom line is to shoot what you shoot the best. Yes I can only get 2 shots off accurately in the same time as 4 with a 9 but again 2 usually does it.