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WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. Im in a similar similar situation. Excellent insight DB! He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. The womans story you shared sounded like her personal interpretation of events that has no factual evidence to back it up.. We areRead more . I canRead more , I can tell you that I know Todd Wagner personally over 20 years ago. Seems like theres a lot of hurting people with a lot to hide on this thread. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. Thank you for your reply! Were here to help you find that. Once you have joined or have been placed in a community group (CG), the control begins. *Michael was in a Community Group of men that he discovered were not particularly disciplined, dependable or trustworthy, yet he was expected to do life with them and be completely authentic. What is Watermark? Then she shares the sheep aspect which is they did help financially which is Christ like. Hint: It has nothing to do with being in a physical church, but all about being The Church. Case in point this comment left on my post The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members: What Im curious to know is if Watermark Church lead pastor Todd Wagner has to provide his detailed financial information to a community group? Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. Third, Todd said Christians should live their lives in a way that looks radical or extreme to other people, and Watermark is the best at it, because most churches arent very radical! Grace is a term often used at WM, although I found it either seldom accurately exercised or forgotten completely behind their right to execute Matthew 18 because we all know punishing people draws them back toRead more , Thank you for your comment. You stated that Moneywise is a separate program within Watermark Church, which is true, but the documentation that I provided is from the Community Core Values curriculum, and the Moneywise program is embedded into the core values, which members of the CG are required to follow. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. Once youve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. Gotcha. Many professed believers have doubts about . They get caught up in the whirlwind before they discover the truth. Can anyone tell me what is Todd Wagners past? After you have completed Membership Class Part I, you will be assigned a host who will listen to your story of grace. It sounds like maybe you want Todd to fall in line with the way you think things should be instead of what is biblical. Ive written and researched extensively on this topic, and have done podcast episodes on cults also; this definitely sounds like its on the cult spectrum. I often wonder if complicit Christians are becoming one of the most effective tools to the mis representation of Jesus teachings in todays world. THAT is what these people are afraid of. In the video below, its quite clear that Watermark Church, while maintaining traditional Christian doctrine, is operating in a many ways like a cult. Just to name a few. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. (note spelling a/e) I have met small groups all over the Dallas area of cast aside individuals who bonded over the abuse they experienced while attending this organization. The more I read this story, this sounds like the opposite of how Fellowship Church treated members (Im a former member there) but from a different angle. Remember all of that sharing in Community Group living authentically, telling everyone about your finances, your struggles, getting their permission to make any life decision? I pray your able to navigate how to get her to be independent and not fall dependent on WM for her validation. This a perfect example of why you cannot place implicit trust in a group of people just because you are in a community group at a church. Sure, we made friends with our peers in the class and had fun at summer camp, and it all developed out of normal human interaction. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. One of those, David Leventhal, announced that he had resigned last month It turns the church into a big business and its marquee names into celebrities with huge swaying power. Wed encourage you to pray that God uses biblical community to make you more like Jesus. Watermark Community Core Values. re|engage is a safe place for couples to grow in their marriage through stories of grace, teaching, and small groups. Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. There are many issues at Watermark. He told me several times that my failure to participate has limited him from being involved in a community group, blah blah blah. Completed Discover Watermark? Helping others Believe in Christ. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. The Aftermath: Stories from Former Watermark Church Members. Also, they believe that if you arent a member of a local church, you are essentially a rebel, dismembered from the body, exiled from the kingdom and an orphan of the faith. Dallas, TX 75251, In Person Sunday 9 AM, 11:15 AM, and 5 PM He began to consider that he was in a cult. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! Together, we serve the church by inspiring and equipping every Member to live a life of full devotion to Christ. If someone doesnt respond initially, it could become a warning, or even a loving rebuke or strong correction (1 Thessalonians 5:14a, 2 Timothy 4:2)., In *Michaels case, he was admonished by his community group when he was invited out to dinner (not knowing the reason why) then blindsided when he was told that he was in trouble for not attending community group often enoughwhich brings me to #6 (and the reason for *Michaels decline in CG attendance), #6: Engage intentionally with our communities and the world to make disciples. These Community Group Core Values are not negotiable. Everyone acts super happy, wanting a high five that you are there.Read more . I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. On any device & OS. The indication in the sermon I took as this type behavior was common in the marriages of core members, and this system for family members to have a safe network should the man become overwhelming was being recommended.Read more , Thank you for these articles. Therefore, one of the most important steps we take to be fully devoted followers of Christ is to connect with others in a community group.. Feb 2022 - Present1 year 2 months. When you leave a church of this size or have a falling out or disagreement, the after effects can be life altering. It sounds like people from the church may have gotten some things wrong, but I know so many people that haveRead more , Pdiddy The taxes ALONE on the house Todd lives in are over $30K a year, which is probably the salary of some WM staff members. The reason: He's gay and in a relationship. Marvin Walker (left), the pastor of Watermark South Dallas, laughs with the neighborhood panel after church member Micheal Sneed (right) remembers he should have been talking about his views about the church, but gave a 10-minute testimony of his life growing up in South Dallas at the rezoning community meeting on Monday, Nov. 7, 2022. Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. *Michael (pseudonym) was the first person to contact me about Watermark Church and its abusive practices, after he found my blog when researching similarities between Scientology & church abuse. They have stated 6 Core values for every community member to adhere to in order to be a member of the community. Ron also stated that Bible Study is not a part of the Community agenda. Location & Hours Suggest an edit 7540 Lyndon B Johnson Fwy Dallas, TX 75251 North Dallas Get directions Ask the Community Ask a question Q: I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. These are filled out by each community group member, then copies made and provided to all of the other members. What really matters is care for ones spirit which in her example is being ravaged. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. Part of Membership at Watermark is participating in regular, gospel-centered service. Todd Wagner, co-founder of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, announced his resignation on Sunday after a season of chaos and conflict. During our four-step Membership process, youll learn what it means to be a Member here at Watermark. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. Again,Read more , http://www.dianelangberg.com/2020/03/wolvessheepandshepherds/, When I asked Ron Smith, the Watermark Church appointed Community Launcher/Shepherd for our new Community group for a compelling reason to be in a community group he replied as follows (this is his text message to me): The #1 compelling reason for community is that Watermark elders have made it mandatory for membership in the church, hence the name Watermark Community Church. Watermark Churchs membership process first requires that you sign themembership covenant, which oddly enough, you can do online. woodbridge high school stabbing; 1000 blythe blvd parking lot b I find it so interesting that Watermark Church has had to repeatedly defend itself against being labeled a cult. watermark church ex members summer seminar usafa 2021 watermark church ex members. former board member of . The church is renovating the vacant part of the. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership (whatever that means). I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. At the end of each section in Session #4 Giving, community groupmembers are required to fill out financial worksheets in regards to their finances: income, debt & giving. At Watermark, we want to be an authentic people known for our . Then you are asked to come prepared to ask questions with everyones financial portfolio in hand. There are 2 Todd Wagners in Dallas. I haveRead more , Two anecdotes: Through a friend I learned of a professional counselor making note of how many Watermark clients she had who were women who felt emotionally abused and demeaned by their husbands. But not everyone wants that, and for those people there are lots of other churches that offer community groups, small groups, life groups, etc. Let me guessthe PASTORS of this church DONT have to be real and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles.right???? Its a 12 step like program. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there. Here is where to find the covenant. While he was pastor at another church in Dallas he followed this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. And, there was zero pressure from church leadership to do so. Splash Sunday School classes learn about God's word through Bible lessons, scripture memorization, songs, games and crafts. There is a lot to like about being in that space and the staff and volunteers go out of their way to make you feel welcome. Todd could use he had no use for you. Please allow up to 3 business days for a response. Its like a social experiment. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. Streaming Sunday 9 and 11:15 AM BTW this is some Grade-A scripture twisting by Watermark Church on why you should share your financial information with the community group. While help with finances kept the anxiety under control, it was the lack of Jesus I experienced fromRead more , Thank you for the validation Nueva. During his address to the Watermark Community Church congregation in September, Wagner told them [], Did anyone see this Sundays Sermon? that would be a better fit. This team makes sure we are good stewards of those gifts by carefully receiving, counting, and documenting each gift given in house on Sunday mornings. I tried to attend their services, tried Re-Engage but I always felt icked-out by the whole thing. plan your weekend visit Their defense, interestingly enough, is that anyone who thinks Watermark Church is a cult is the one with a problem, and Ryan gave 4 reasons why (these are direct quotes): Ryan then challenges the students to ask the following 3 questions when asked if Watermark Church is a cult: Instead of actually addressing why Watermark is being repeatedly labeled as a cult, these students are being further indoctrinated to ignore those concerns and place the blame for them on those who would question the organization. Interviews are to begin on March 13th. Email: pastoraloffice@watermark.org Statement From Watermark Community Church Recently, one of our former members posted a letter he received from some close friends and the leadership of our church informing him that his membership status had been removed. AGAIN no one is legally obligated to keep that information confidential so if you win the lottery, chances are that information is going find its way out of the community group. Watermark's Church Contract And some community groups are less intense. I think these behemoths are fueled by a bizarre tendency of people to adulate and worship grand pumba pastors the fealty and reverence paid to them always astonishes me. It also means sharing your entire financial portfolio and giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group. According to the online document Governance, if you want to withdraw your membership from Watermark Church, you can only do so under these three conditions: You CANNOT, however, attempt to withdraw your membership to avoid church discipline, as I referenced in my previous post in regards to a lawsuit that Watermark Church was involved in. Can I serve in a ministry that isnt part of Watermark? Harassed by members at work amongst other things. My former GF was one of them and she was run off, I was run off for supporting her. Here's everything you need to know about your first visit, from parking and Kids' Ministry to accessibility for guests with special needs and what to wear. Watermark Church has 6 core values for Community Groups: Community Core Value #1: Devote ourselves daily to a personal relationship with Jesus. This is essentially a scaled down version of church discipline. I think having that information would offer great insight and explain some things. The atmosphere is very inviting and aesthetically appealing. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. You may or may not know the 5-6 people you are sitting in the room with (doesnt matter). Ive heard many stories about their type of conversion therapy. Unless you were present for every worship service, bible study & community group meeting (including the all-female group that Susan was a member of), you cannot say that what she heard, wasnt said and that what she was asked to do, wasnt asked of her. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. Want to join our team? Can I be in a community group if Im not a Member of Watermark? Please allow up to 3 business days for a response. Rarely does someone leave a church fearing that they will be surveilled, have it affect their employment & reputation, and cause longterm PTSD. All of these things happened to *Michael. Throw money at him; the car, the house, after a couple of years your kids are in private school, youre used to the good lifethen they tell you. Astonished by the revelation that his new employer represents the mob, he asks FBI agent Moyle, Who in the firm knows? to which he responds, Every partner knows.. . Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. The fourth and last step in Watermarks Membership process is joining a community group. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. Its legalism re-packaged in reformed gospel-speak, and its abusive. Spiritual authority influences others toward Gods purposes. Tim loves to preach, loves people, and loves to watch Indiana basketball and Colts football! My perception is this former member did take their concerns to leadership. He didnt formally withdraw his membership, to avoid suspicion and detection. Post author: Post published: June 29, 2022; Post category: pronounce macon lugny; While it might seem like a moot point to most of us to someone who has been indoctrinated in this system, when they finally gain the courage to leave, these are very real fears. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). What happens if someone doesnt want to share about their finances? No paper. So you either choose to remain by completing the 4b questionnaire or you are no longer a member, [] a greatexample of unsafe community groups which verge on cults. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. SERVICIO DOMINICAL EN ESPAOL 11:15 AM. Some neighbors said Wednesday they felt ignored with a lack of information from. Been a member for over 9 years and have never experienced the things many of you are talking about. Do I believe writing posts about Watermark Church will cause them to change their policies? I am a CFP and I dont see how the gift tax is relevant in this instance. That is only for the married folk. Any stories out there other than the one in the news? We are so glad youre planning to join us at Watermark Dallas. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Mon - Fri 6:00am - 5:00pm, 5:00pm - 6:00am (Emergencies) florida panther sightings map 2021; 1975 bicentennial commemorative medal Gretchen Reigh Ministry Assistant I cannot overstate how this should alarm people to the abusive tactics of Watermark Community Church. I have spoken to several former members who have told me that they were asked to disclose their entire financial portfolio TO THEIR COMMUNITY GROUP, and not due to a benevolence request. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). What strikes me most clearly is that Watermark fits clearly two of Dr Robert Liftons 8 markers of cults: the demand for purity and the cult of confession. Considering thatRead more , Dave It is disingenuous to minimize someone elses experience just because you did not witness it yourself. He springs off of that definition into how true followers of Jesus might be considered a Jesus-cult and how is that a bad thing? After surviving the mental mind games; requirements which forced your focus onto WM (over Gods children as a whole); moved from a small/community group dialogue of what can we do to serve Gods children and one another to a focus on everyones sins/short comings; and focus on surviving their destructive behaviors under theRead more . Be trained in God's truth. Youll also get an overview of the equipping, serving, and connecting opportunities available to help you grow in your faith, meet other believers, and get involved. Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? I appreciate it! Its because Watermark wants to know all of of your deepest darkest struggles & sins. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. The Yelp algorithm is strange. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. Members received the news of Leventhal's resignation a month after he tendered it, adding to the suspicion that a months long process of dealing with Wagner's 'pride problem' appears to be more than what has been disclosed to the church. At the beginning of each year our membership goes to zero.